The Buddha Tells Mahamati Of An Encounter With A Materialist Brahman

"Mahamati, I recall once a materialist Brahman came to where I was staying and without waiting asked, 'Gautama, is everything created?'

"I answered, 'Brahman, that everything is created is the most rudimentary kind of materialism.'

"He asked again, 'Is everything not created?'

"I answered, 'That everything is not created is the second kind of materialism.'

"He asked again, 'Is everything permanent? Or is everything impermanent? Does everything arise? Or does everything not arise?'

"I answered, 'That makes six kinds of materialism.'

"Mahamati, he asked again, 'Is everything the same? Or is everything different? Is everything both of these? Or is everything neither of these? Or does everything appear due to multiple causes?'

"I answered, 'That makes eleven kinds of materialism.'

"Mahamati, he asked again, 'Is everything neutral? Or is everything karmic? Is there a self? Or is there no self? Does this world exist? Or does this world not exist? Or is there another world? Or is there no other world? Is there liberation? Or is there no liberation? Is everything momentary? Or is everything not momentary? And are space, cessation, and nirvana created, Gautama? Or are they not created? And is there an intermediate existence? Or is there no intermediate existence?'

"Mahamati, I answered, 'Brahman, all these things of which you speak are materialism. This materialism of yours is not what I teach. I only teach that the cause of the three realms and their various ills is the habit-energy of fabrications and projections without beginning. But because you are unable to see that they are merely projections of your own mind, you give rise to projections and objectify an external existence. According to followers of other paths, awareness arises from the threefold combination of a self, sense organs, and sense objects, but not according to me. Brahman, I do not teach that there are causes, nor do I do teach that there are no causes. I only teach causation as a fabrication of projecting the existence of a subject and an object. This is not something you or others who accept the continuity of a self can understand.'

"Mahamati, nirvana, space, and cessation are not three things. They are only counted as three things.

"Furthermore, Mahamati, this materialist Brahman asked me again, 'Are ignorance, desire, and karma the cause of the three realms? Or are they not the cause?'

"I answered, 'Both of these are also materialism.'

"He asked again, 'Does everything have individual and shared characteristics?'

"I answered, 'This is also materialism. Brahman, any movement of the mind involving projection of an external object is materialism.'

"Again, Mahamati, the Brahman asked, 'Is there any teaching that is not materialistic? I am versed in all the doctrines of other schools and in the different expressions, arguments, metaphors, and embellishments of their teachings.'

"I answered, 'There is, Brahman, but it is not one of yours. It is not a fabrication, and it is not a doctrine, and it is not a teaching. But it is not not a teaching, and its various expressions are not not embellished with arguments and metaphors."

"The Brahman asked, "What is it that is not materialism, not not a doctrine, and not not a teaching?"

"I answered, 'Brahman, there is something that is not materialism, but it is something you followers of other paths cannot understand due to your mistaken attachment to the fabrication and projection of external existence. Projections do not arise when you understand that existence and nonexistence are nothing but projections of your own mind. And projections do not arise when you do not grasp external objects. The permanent cessation of projection, this is what I mean by 'what is not materialism.' This is my teaching and not yours. Briefly, Brahman, if consciousness involves coming or going, birth or death, joy or suffering, disappearance or appearance, contact or grasping, or if it involves attachment to a combination or a continuity or to a desire or a cause, Brahman, if it involves anything like this, it is your materialism and not mine.'

"Mahamati, after this materialist Brahman had asked in this manner, and I had answered in this manner, he was silent. Then he left without saying another word. But he thought about his own understanding and said to himself, 'This Buddhist monk is incomprehensible. He teaches no arising, no form, no cause, and that once someone becomes aware that what they perceive are their own projections, projections do not arise.'

---The Lankavatara Sutra---